Dialogue session with the residents on the 26th April 2007 ( WITHOUT PREJUDICE )
What a night! What an unforgetful night! The hall was packed and some had to stand outside the hall. Looking at the crowd, I have to admit that I was a little nervous. I started by telling the owners that this is a dialogue session and not a meeting. We are not here to make any decisions but to explain and clear whatever doubts they have over the implementation of the card access. Before I could finish, someone tried to interrupt. They wanted me to speak in Chinese. I told them that I would finish off in English and my secretary would try to explain in Chinese. I could see that a few of the owners were unhappy. I told them how the whole thing started. I told them why there was a different between the estimated cost which I told them and the real cost incurred. Mr David Khor, the GM of UOA was able to convince the committee ( a lawyer, a M&E engineer, an executive and some businessmen ) but I was not able to convince some of the owners. I am not in the same class as Mr David.
Before the R.A's secretary could finish explaining in Chinese, bullets started raining down on me. They put me in a defensive position. A few of them had come well armed with questions which I had no answers or in the position to reply. They were out to draw blood. They would not listen to any explanations. They would only look at the negative aspects of the implementation. To them, it's a waste of fund, it will not prevent any break-ins, it's a burden to them , they want a fool proof system and they wanted to be told the exact cost before Dats could start work. Perhaps , we have different perceptions. Dats Management felt that they could start work upon receiving the 60% consensus and some owners felt that they have to be told the exact cost. I told them that I put up the quotations on the notice board for two weeks. They claimed that they did not read them. What could I say? One lady was quite irrational in her argument. She wanted the committee to recommend a company to UOA which can do it with a lower cost. She wanted the committee to instruct UOA to stop whatever payments made to the current company. This is the most ridiculous suggestion that I ever heard. She must be thinking that The R.A. is managing Prima Setapak. I was speechless. She came up with so many ifs. What if her children knock into the glass? What if there is a fire? What if she was caught in the lift? She further claimed that the door is too small. I have no answers to all her ifs. The sundry shop owner was offended when I questioned his status at Prima. I apologized to him for doing that. I sincerely do not wish to embarrass him for claimming to own two units of the condos at Prima. I do not want to expose him. Should there be another dialogue session, I would not be so accommodating. He had no business to be there. If he has any grievances, he should bring them up with the management and not the Owners' Association.
One gentleman came up with a logical solution. He would try to get an independent consultant to look into the cost. I gave him a copy of the quotation. Our main concern is the cost. If it is justified, we have to accept it. If it is way above the market price, then we would definitely lodge a protest with UOA. At this stage, what's done cannot be undone anymore. You can get a court injunction to stop the project if you are willing to go that far. But, who will be the loser? We are. The developer will just use the money contributed by us to remove the injunction because under the Strata Title Act, they have the right to so. I told the crowd that my conscience is very clear. I am not a 10% man. I can accept all the attacks directed at me. I volunteer to accept this job. The worst scenario that I am looking at is to step down and pave the way for someone who can do a better job than me.
Another confident lady orator asked why the developer has the right to use RM 300 000 without getting our approval. I would like to advise her to direct the question to the Land and Mines deparment. Don't blame the owners, don't blame the developer but blame the goverment. The Strata Title Act is very clear, for any condos of which the strata titles have not being issued, the developer has the full authority to manage the condos. The goverment gives them this right. Some developers go for transparency but some treat the condos as their cash cows. In our case, UOA was willing to explain to us in details the full cost of the implementation. Majority of the committee were convinced but regretted to say that I was not able to convince some of the owners. There are 750 owners living at our condo. I don't expect them to think alike. I just hope that the majority are with me. As I have told you, I am not in the same class as Mr David, a very good orator with facts and figures.
I was quite angry with a committee member who tendered his resignation abruptly. In his letter , he told me that he resigned because he disagreed with the way the issue was handled. He was not happy because I did not put in enough effort to stop the project. Who am I to instruct UOA to stop work??? He was absent in many committee meetings. He was absent when the committee agreed to carry out a signature campaign . He was absent when we had the first dialogue session with the residents. He was absent when we had a meeting with UOA. Where is his responsibility as a committee member? I was not angry with him because he resigned. I was angry because he turned to the floor to direct his personal attack against me. I am not a gentleman if I point a finger at the committee should I sit at the floor as an ex-chairman.
I wish to see this thing through. I would not chicken out. I would be seen as a coward if I resign. The upgraded security system is not a total failure yet. It has not even being implemented. Give it a chance to work. My fate lies with the members in the next A.G.M. If they decide to remove me, I would leave gracefully. To me, this is a learning process. I wonder how many of the owners have ever heard of the Building and Common Property Act 2006 and how the new Act will affect us. I really wish to remain to work with the developer to enforce the Bill. I understand how it works because I have read the whole Bill. To tell the truth, if we are not properly organized, the winner will be the developer. This Bill gives us the full authority to manage our own condos ( of which the strata titles have not being issued ) but I am doubtful it will work if we are not united. To tell the truth, it will be years before we shall get our strata titles. We have to stand united to put pressure on the developer to convene the first meeting to set up the Prima Setapak Joint Management Body ( PSJMB ). Joint means together with the developer to manage our condo. The implication of the Bill is great. The Bill gives us the legal rights to decide ( the amount of maintenance fees, the rules and regulations and anything ) on what we want for Prima. The Bill will be gazetted soon.
Back to the card access. I wonder whether things would have been different if I had told the owners in the first dialogue session that the total cost of the card access implementation is in the range of RM 200 000 to RM 300 000 . I told them the estimated cost is RM 200 000. Should I had used the right highlighted word, I strongly believe that issue on cost would not have arised. Just imagine what the power of the right word used can do. People can capitalize and misinterpret on just one word used. I guess, my greatest mistake is not getting the right information. I am learning something new every day. To quote Datul Ong Ka Ting, education is a lifelong process.
What I wrote in this blog is my personal view. It does not reflect the view of the committee. Thousand apologies should I have offended anyone in this blog.
It's 12.25 a.m. now. Good morning and have a nice day!

20 Comments:
I personally feel that this dialogue session is not necessary at all . It attracts more opposing views that any other thing ! Let the project fully completed first .
The intention of educating the residents might be good , but not at this very moment .Every projects has the strength and weakness , even the most high-end condo do not have a full proof system. All those controls would have been thought of earlier one . It's not possible to please every residents .
Well done Mr. See. Appreciated for all the hardwork that you have done for Prima Setapak Condo residents. Keep it up and disregard what others had said. At the end of the event they will realised and aprreciated for what you have done.
First of all, this blog should open to all residents of Prima Setapak as the name of the blog per se. It is a very selfish act by the RA Chairman, Mr See, who can post in your grouses and other residents can't. This blog should be open to all residents of Prima Setapak for them to post the comments as well. Everytime we have to wait until the RA dialogue session or AGM to give our opinion or we have to write in personally to complaint to the management when we have a complaint.
I welcome the CCTV and Card Access system but the I see it, to access the common areas at 3rd Floor, I need to use the access card. This is absurd! Even when I want to visit my friends at other block, I need to give them a call and get them to open the door at 3rd floor to let me in. Wasting my telephone cost. Residents have to carry card whenever they want to swim, going to the gym or children going to the playground. Chances of access card getting lost is very high. Its like living is a high security prison!! Its very anti-sosial. I suggest Dats Management remove the card access system and install a gate leading to the stairways exit point to car park. The CCTV is there to monitor the movement of people. Use the tampered glass dorr for other purposes.
Hei, Mr See,
You ingat you seoranr sahaja dalam blok ini sahaja. tak ambil perasaan orang lain. You ingat you hero Prima Setapak ke? You pandai padam komen yang tak baik. Yang baik tentang you, you publish.
Jangan hina orang yang tak berpelajaran. kami juga manusia. lu cikgu apa. hina orang tak tentu arah. BALIK SEKOLAH LAH
Whether the comment is posite or negative, I have never deleted any of them unless it is a vulgar one. I don't know which comment this anoanymous guy referring to. Please don't make any groundless allegation.
hei pengkritik misteri, di bahagian mana blog awak terasa terhina? Adakah saya mamadamkan komen kamu? Biar pembaca yang tentukan samaada tuduhan awak itu berasas atau tidak?
Pengritik misteri,
Jangan cikgu ini cikgu itu. Apakah kaitan aktiviti yang saya jalankan dalam persatuan dengan profesyen saya. Jangan biarkan saya bongkarkan identiti kamu. Jikalau kamu amat sangat hendak menyertai Persatuan Pemilik ini, saya nasihatkan kamu beli sebuah rumah di sini dan jadi seorang pemilik. Jikalau tidak, tolong jangan buat apa-apa komen kerana kamu tidak menyumbang sesen pun kepada kos card access ini. Jikalau kamu ialah seorang pemilik, kamu berhak menjadi pengerusi Persatuan Pemilik Prima Setapak Kondo. Saya rela memberi laluan kepada kamu.
Mr See,
dont worry about clowns that are disturbing ur work....
just let them be by themselves...
ppl like that is the type of ppl that cannot make it in live....
so why bother right???
anyway, i support everything tat u have done to make Prima Setapak a better place to stay.....
hello all,
it's been one of best meeting i ever attend (besides "ceramah" between political parties during election) ... anyway, let's discuss how to proceed to finish the un-finish business, shall we?
1) mr see as the president has volunteered himself as the president when all of us chicken out during the association establishment, in fact he was the only nominated person back then ... so we should appreciate him for this "no-salary" position ...
2) i felt the atmosphere - for those who didn't even bother to attend or join the association, you should think twice about talking how your rights are being taken for a ride ... if you care about the value of your unit specifically and the whole condo generally, you should show your commitment by joining (and voice whatever your dissatisfaction throughout the process of decision-making) ..
3) having said that i've to agreed to certain extend the "cries" of the people who feel the developer (UOA) has taken the 60%+ signature as the "blank-cheque" to award the project to this $300,000 bid ... i dare to voice this out now because i noticed the quality (i'm sure it's almost the end of the installation) of the glass-door (is it tempered at the first place?), the couple of aluminium pieces holding together which looks can be broken quite easily (indirectly will incur extra costs to maintain/replace) ... for god sake, does the same installation for all the 3 blocks comes to $300,000? i doubt so unless there're hidden costs which i'm not aware of ...
4) can we blame mr presidet? ... yes and no ... YES - because he's too "soft" at the negotiation table with developer but he's just a teacher ... how much does a teacher knows about the cruel-way of business being conducted out there? he might not have seen how wolves pretend as the innocent sheep before swallow it alive ... we need some businessman to sit in the committee or at least someone who has negotiate huge business tender before ... NO - because no one is willing to take the shit of representing the association for the betterman ... so "tiada rotan, akar pun jadi lah" ...
5) shall we proceed with the project ... instead of screaming "who are we to reject the developer", i think if someone(s) who has legal & business plus similar-experience can come forward and talk to developer, there could be some workaround in getting "some discount" to the whole costs (a way for everyone to comes to a conclusion without losing face) ... in business world, everything is possible ... even after a tender has been awarded, it still can be cancelled ... of course in our case, since we do not have the strata title as the bargaining-chip, we might need a good negotiator with "long-term working relationship" as the justification for a better cost ...
6) at the same time, if anyone who's working at the same industry, probably he/she can get another unofficial quotation for the same work scope and see the deviation percentage ...
7) talking about strata title, i'm beginning to feel sick and tired with all the lame excuses why we're not getting strata title after so many years ... anyway to get external force to speed things up? since the president has good comments on the wakil rakyat for this area, can he get the YB to help?
8) this blog is a good venue to everyone to voice their opinion ... but i think one lady complaint that this is mr see's personal blog (i don't blame her because she doesn't know what is a blog, perhaps she wants to invest in a public "website" instead) to which i think there's a solution to it ... mr see, if you haven't upgrade/migrate this blog into the latest version (google's blogger should have force you to migrate anyway) please do so ... once you've migrated, you can goto "Settings" tab and under here you can see "Permission" at the last option to which you can grant permission to other people to act as author to contribute/blog ... hope this helps ...
if things get really ugly, we might become famous again (after the water crisis) if the whole issue get into the press-room ... come to think of it - that could be the deciding factor to force things to a halt ...
above are just my personal opinions .., my apology in advance if i've offended anyone ...
cheers
Fred
I would like to share with you an incident which happened in my floor this afternoon and you may find out how the CCTV contributes to the security of the condo.
My maid came back after sending my son to school this afternoon and she found someone trying to open the pack lock of our grille. She asked the guy what was he trying to do and the guy answered that his boss ask him to send something to the house. My maid then chased him away. She called me after getting into the house and locked the door then on the alarm. I called Dats Management to send a guard to my unit for checking.
A guard then came to my unit and was briefed by my maid on the incident. He left and started investigating. After 1 hour I think, my maid called and informed me that, the guard checked the CCTV record and found the guy. Both of them came to my unit again to explain that the guy is actually the staff of an owner of another unit in the same floor. He has mistaken the unit hence trying to open our grille.
From this incident, I really find the CCTV help a lot in investigation thus I think it is necessary to be installed without any more argument. I would also like to thank the management and the guard for their prompt action.
hello mr see,
i've posted my opinion a couple of days ago ... but i think either it's been deleted or ignored ... could you please recheck my comment again?
i'm pretty sure it's under your moderation and you should have noticed it since you're posted yet another new topic ... i don't think my comment is negative nor positive ...
thanx
hello all,
it's been one of best meeting i ever attend (besides "ceramah" between political parties during election) ... anyway, let's discuss how to proceed to finish the un-finish business, shall we?
1) mr see as the president has volunteered himself as the president when all of us chicken out during the association establishment, in fact he was the only nominated person back then ... so we should appreciate him for this "no-salary" position ...
2) i felt the atmosphere - for those who didn't even bother to attend or join the association, you should think twice about talking how your rights are being taken for a ride ... if you care about the value of your unit specifically and the whole condo generally, you should show your commitment by joining (and voice whatever your dissatisfaction throughout the process of decision-making) ..
3) having said that i've to agreed to certain extend the "cries" of the people who feel the developer (UOA) has taken the 60%+ signature as the "blank-cheque" to award the project to this $300,000 bid ... i dare to voice this out now because i noticed the quality (i'm sure it's almost the end of the installation) of the glass-door (is it tempered at the first place?), the couple of aluminium pieces holding together which looks can be broken quite easily (indirectly will incur extra costs to maintain/replace) ... for god sake, does the same installation for all the 3 blocks comes to $300,000? i doubt so unless there're hidden costs which i'm not aware of ...
4) can we blame mr presidet? ... yes and no ... YES - because he's too "soft" at the negotiation table with developer but he's just a teacher ... how much does a teacher knows about the cruel-way of business being conducted out there? he might not have seen how wolves pretend as the innocent sheep before swallow it alive ... we need some businessman to sit in the committee or at least someone who has negotiate huge business tender before ... NO - because no one is willing to take the shit of representing the association for the betterman ... so "tiada rotan, akar pun jadi lah" ...
5) shall we proceed with the project ... instead of screaming "who are we to reject the developer", i think if someone(s) who has legal & business plus similar-experience can come forward and talk to developer, there could be some workaround in getting "some discount" to the whole costs (a way for everyone to comes to a conclusion without losing face) ... in business world, everything is possible ... even after a tender has been awarded, it still can be cancelled ... of course in our case, since we do not have the strata title as the bargaining-chip, we might need a good negotiator with "long-term working relationship" as the justification for a better cost ...
6) at the same time, if anyone who's working at the same industry, probably he/she can get another unofficial quotation for the same work scope and see the deviation percentage ...
7) talking about strata title, i'm beginning to feel sick and tired with all the lame excuses why we're not getting strata title after so many years ... anyway to get external force to speed things up? since the president has good comments on the wakil rakyat for this area, can he get the YB to help?
8) this blog is a good venue to everyone to voice their opinion ... but i think one lady complaint that this is mr see's personal blog (i don't blame her because she doesn't know what is a blog, perhaps she wants to invest in a public "website" instead) to which i think there's a solution to it ... mr see, if you haven't upgrade/migrate this blog into the latest version (google's blogger should have force you to migrate anyway) please do so ... once you've migrated, you can goto "Settings" tab and under here you can see "Permission" at the last option to which you can grant permission to other people to act as author to contribute/blog ... hope this helps ...
if things get really ugly, we might become famous again (after the water crisis) if the whole issue get into the press-room ... come to think of it - that could be the deciding factor to force things to a halt ...
above are just my personal opinions .., my apology in advance if i've offended anyone ...
cheers
Fred
Don't give up, Mr See... Very appreciated what u have done for us!! Thank you!!
mr see, i've been sending you my comments twice but it seems you practice double standard ... i understand you do moderate comments but to just put mostly positive feedback while dumping criticism is not a good practice - don't you think so?
I apologized if I had deleted two of your comments. I really could not remember which of your cemments were deleted. I only delete comments which are not relevent to the topic or vulgar words are used. I do not delete any negative comments. When you read this particular comment which is in B. Malaysia and which I perceived to be a personal attack, did I delete it? I welcome any comments, be they negative or positive. That's how we are able to gauge the reactions from the residents.
ok mr see, below is the copy of my previous comment which could have been "accidently" deleted ...
hello all,
it's been one of best meeting i ever attend (besides "ceramah" between political parties during election) ... anyway, let's discuss how to proceed to finish the un-finish business, shall we?
1) mr see as the president has volunteered himself as the president when all of us chicken out during the association establishment, in fact he was the only nominated person back then ... so we should appreciate him for this "no-salary" position ...
2) i felt the atmosphere - for those who didn't even bother to attend or join the association, you should think twice about talking how your rights are being taken for a ride ... if you care about the value of your unit specifically and the whole condo generally, you should show your commitment by joining (and voice whatever your dissatisfaction throughout the process of decision-making) ..
3) having said that i've to agreed to certain extend the "cries" of the people who feel the developer (UOA) has taken the 60%+ signature as the "blank-cheque" to award the project to this $300,000 bid ... i dare to voice this out now because i noticed the quality (i'm sure it's almost the end of the installation) of the glass-door (is it tempered at the first place?), the couple of aluminium pieces holding together which looks can be broken quite easily (indirectly will incur extra costs to maintain/replace) ... for god sake, does the same installation for all the 3 blocks comes to $300,000? i doubt so unless there're hidden costs which i'm not aware of ...
4) can we blame mr presidet? ... yes and no ... YES - because he's too "soft" at the negotiation table with developer but he's just a teacher ... how much does a teacher knows about the cruel-way of business being conducted out there? he might not have seen how wolves pretend as the innocent sheep before swallow it alive ... we need some businessman to sit in the committee or at least someone who has negotiate huge business tender before ... NO - because no one is willing to take the shit of representing the association for the betterman ... so "tiada rotan, akar pun jadi lah" ...
5) shall we proceed with the project ... instead of screaming "who are we to reject the developer", i think if someone(s) who has legal & business plus similar-experience can come forward and talk to developer, there could be some workaround in getting "some discount" to the whole costs (a way for everyone to comes to a conclusion without losing face) ... in business world, everything is possible ... even after a tender has been awarded, it still can be cancelled ... of course in our case, since we do not have the strata title as the bargaining-chip, we might need a good negotiator with "long-term working relationship" as the justification for a better cost ...
6) at the same time, if anyone who's working at the same industry, probably he/she can get another unofficial quotation for the same work scope and see the deviation percentage ...
7) talking about strata title, i'm beginning to feel sick and tired with all the lame excuses why we're not getting strata title after so many years ... anyway to get external force to speed things up? since the president has good comments on the wakil rakyat for this area, can he get the YB to help?
8) this blog is a good venue to everyone to voice their opinion ... but i think one lady complaint that this is mr see's personal blog (i don't blame her because she doesn't know what is a blog, perhaps she wants to invest in a public "website" instead) to which i think there's a solution to it ... mr see, if you haven't upgrade/migrate this blog into the latest version (google's blogger should have force you to migrate anyway) please do so ... once you've migrated, you can goto "Settings" tab and under here you can see "Permission" at the last option to which you can grant permission to other people to act as author to contribute/blog ... hope this helps ...
if things get really ugly, we might become famous again (after the water crisis) if the whole issue get into the press-room ... come to think of it - that could be the deciding factor to force things to a halt ...
above are just my personal opinions .., my apology in advance if i've offended anyone ...
cheers
Fred
Mr Fred,
I am sorry I did not remember coming accross your lengthty and constructive comment. I believed that it was not published due to some technical hiccup. I would definitely not delete such a comment. For your info, when we had meeting with the developer, a lawyer, an accountant and an assistant M and E manager and a few other successful businessmen attended the meeting too. As to day is the A.G.M. I welcome any contest for the chairman's post. For the sake of Prima , I can remain as an ordinary committee member. This chairman's post is not about power or personal interest. It's just that nobody wants to take over this post due to the fact that they are too busy
I am sorry , I cannot grant permissions to others to become authors of this blog. I shall not be the chairman of Prima forever. When I am no longer be the chiarman, I would have to change the name of this blog. Maybe, the new chairman can set a forum ( I do not know how ) like what the HBA ( House Buyers Association ) did. Do visit the HBA's forum and find out what problems other condos are facing in comparison to ours.
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